The Random Discussion / Argument Thread

[med180]

that might be all true & here we are 2025 , what are his other options today ?
pretty much all other EU leaders have said any agreement " Must " involve the US

They were but EU leaders have almost unanimously come out in support of Ukraine after the fiasco in the US, the following weeks should be interesting

 

[Sun Ra]

Nazi oligarchs have seized treasury control of an authoritarian White House and everyone seems kinda chill about it - The Shot

Capitalism and democracy, despite what you’ve been led to believe, are not the same thing. Capitalism eats democracy if unsupervised.

theshot.net.au

 

[itchybro]

They were but EU leaders have almost unanimously come out in support of Ukraine after the fiasco in the US, the following weeks should be interesting

yes but none of them , even combined want an agreement that the US doesn't sign on to
none want to go it alone against Putin & none of us want anymore killing or WW3 , keeping in mind China with the largest active military in the world & freind of Russia ain't that far away from Australia

 

[med180]

yes but none of them , even combined want an agreement that the US doesn't sign on to
none want to go it alone against Putin & none of us want anymore killing or WW3 , keeping in mind China with the largest active military in the world & freind of Russia ain't that far away from Australia

Change this big doesn't happen overnight, we are already beginning to see countries around the world realise that the US is no longer a reliable economic or security partner. Signing another agreement that history shows will not be enforced, giving a fifth of your land to Russia and half your resources to the US whilst waiting for the next invasion is Madness.
With examples like Ukraine and Afghanistan, we are kidding ourselves if we think Trump will save us from China!

 

[itchybro]

Change this big doesn't happen overnight, we are already beginning to see countries around the world realise that the US is no longer a reliable economic or security partner. Signing another agreement that history shows will not be enforced, giving a fifth of your land to Russia and half your resources to the US whilst waiting for the next invasion is Madness.
With examples like Ukraine and Afghanistan, we are kidding ourselves if we think Trump will save us from China!

ok , back to my original question what other option does zelensky have that ticks all the boxes of positive outcomes for all ?

 

[benn0]

 

[itchybro]

What Does "Stands Fully With" Actually Mean ?

 

[med180]

ok , back to my original question what other option does zelensky have that ticks all the boxes of positive outcomes for all ?

Trumps option is good for Trump, good for Russia, and Ukraine loses territory, loses mineral rights, and gets no security guarantees that it doesn't happen again as it has twice already, even with US guarantees... i fail to see this as positive outcomes for all.
when deals are normally brokered, all interested parties are involved, not just the aggressor and a "mediator "

 

[itchybro]

Trumps option is good for Trump, good for Russia, and Ukraine loses territory, loses mineral rights, and gets no security guarantees that it doesn't happen again as it has twice already, even with US guarantees... i fail to see this as positive outcomes for all.
when deals are normally brokered, all interested parties are involved, not just the aggressor and a "mediator "

sorry med but your still aiming at Trump & the US , that's fine as your opinion , so lets we remove the US & Trump from the equation what does zelenski do " now " without them , for a positive outcome to this problem for all ?

 

[med180]

Rather than "still aiming at Trump" I was pointing out there are no options on the table that "ticks all the boxes of positive outcomes for all ?" As you put it.
He is definitely in a hard position and i don't claim to have the answer but I do hope that cooler heads from Europe front a fair option soon as the Arab countries are having to do to oppose further ethnic cleansing of the Palestinian territories.

 

[itchybro]

if the Europeans aren't going to sign without the US involvement then as you say Zelensky is between a rock & a hard place , doesn't look like he has any choice but to hop in bed with the Americans for better or worse
this is the point i've been trying to make all along , love or loathe them they have to be in on the deal or it'll go no where & Zelensky & his people/country will be hung out to dry , History whether that's how Zelensky sees it or how the Americans see it makes very little difference to " Now " fortunately or unfortunately , i'm def with you on wanting cooler heads from all involved

 

[med180]

if the Europeans aren't going to sign without the US involvement then as you say Zelensky is between a rock & a hard place , doesn't look like he has any choice but to hop in bed with the Americans for better or worse
this is the point i've been trying to make all along , love or loathe them they have to be in on the deal or it'll go no where & Zelensky & his people/country will be hung out to dry , History whether that's how Zelensky sees it or how the Americans see it makes very little difference to " Now " fortunately or unfortunately , i'm def with you on wanting cooler heads from all involved

There is a European summit on Sunday to formulate a plan, hopefully this yields something. Among other topics is France using it's nuclear weapons as a deterrent for Europe as requested by Germany citing an unreliable US. The world is changing fast

 

[itchybro]

There is a European summit on Sunday to formulate a plan, hopefully this yields something. Among other topics is France using it's nuclear weapons as a deterrent for Europe as requested by Germany citing an unreliable US. The world is changing fast

we"ll see but don't think anyone needs nuclear to be involved , not sure i'd be be listening to Germany at the minute in regards to the Americans considering the back & forth between the 2 currently

 

[med180]

we"ll see but don't think anyone needs nuclear to be involved , not sure i'd be be listening to Germany at the minute in regards to the Americans considering the back & forth between the 2 currently

The French nuclear umbrella is only being discussed due to a HUGE lack of trust in the US defence treaties under the current administration, and fair enough, Ukraine has had these guarantees before....

 

[Old fox]

The French nuclear umbrella is only being discussed due to a HUGE lack of trust in the US defence treaties under the current administration, and fair enough, Ukraine has had these guarantees before....

To put the current Ukrainian situation into a better perspective for us here.

What if China invaded Australia !!!!

Should Australia just hand over our country to China if they invade us?

What other choice do WE have in that scenario.?

We should just surrender in order to maintain world peace, right? It's exactly what's happening in Ukraine right now.

The elephant in the room........if Russia REALLY wants peace, they can withdraw their troops from Ukraine today, and stop the invasion. Why is this option not being discussed?

 

[Sun Ra]

Politics still a choice between not good and worse

Eleven years ago today, the first issue of The Saturday Paper arrived on front lawns, as small and pale as a duckling. Anthony Albanese was shadow minister for transport and Peter Dutton was underperforming in health. They weren’t much and they still aren’t.

www.thesaturdaypaper.com.au

 

[Sun Ra]

To put the current Ukrainian situation into a better perspective for us here.

What if China invaded Australia !!!!

Should Australia just hand over our country to China if they invade us?

What other choice do WE have in that scenario.?

We should just surrender in order to maintain world peace, right? It's exactly what's happening in Ukraine right now.

The elephant in the room........if Russia REALLY wants peace, they can withdraw their troops from Ukraine today, and stop the invasion. Why is this option not being discussed?

Putin should be on trial for war crimes. He should be thankful if he's not pursued for this. THAT should be the deal.

 

[Sun Ra]

Trump's pre-election LIES ....... would he have been elected if he told the TRUTH ?

Opinion | We Need to Talk About the Lying

Trump promised and promised and promised.

www.nytimes.com

 

[itchybro]

To put the current Ukrainian situation into a better perspective for us here.

What if China invaded Australia !!!!

Should Australia just hand over our country to China if they invade us?

What other choice do WE have in that scenario.?

We should just surrender in order to maintain world peace, right? It's exactly what's happening in Ukraine right now.

The elephant in the room........if Russia REALLY wants peace, they can withdraw their troops from Ukraine today, and stop the invasion. Why is this option not being discussed?

China wouldn't invade us because we are in alliance with America who we would call on & to add "you" would want our powers that be to do so if China did

Ukraine have lots of countries who are " Standing With Them " but at the same time as standing with them they are standing behind America waiting for them to move , maybe as med mentioned the tide is turning on America but imo i don't think so , i could be wrong of cause , time will tell

As to Russia withdrawing , that would be nice but can't see that happening unless some sort of deal is done , right or wrong , good or bad it is what it is

A solution needs to be found by whomever asap

 

[SAW]