Domestic Seed Sources - Australia

Old fox

Customs Avoidance
Community Member
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28
Just got a spam email from Canna Vault seeds (Aus), saying they've just restocked. I ordered a few packs of Do-si-dos last Friday which are still in transit. I can't vouch for the company YET, But possibly another local option for punters. I think a TSE member has grown out one of their strains?
 

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Sedge

Baked
Staff member
Community Member
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5
Anyone got any factual info about using reg over fem seed for breeding ?

I’ve heard opposing opinions but nothing that stands solid ,,seems to be folklore only,, as far as I found.
 

Old fox

Customs Avoidance
Community Member
User ID
28
Anyone got anything factual info about using reg over fem seed for breeding ?

I’ve heard opposing opinions but nothing that stands solid ,,seems to be folklore only as far as I found.
Large commercial scale breeders wouldn't share that info with public, as it's not in their interest I'd imagine some of them are very well informed on the topic but keep that info in confidence. Threat to their business if pollen chuckers knew the optimal ways to reverse. Lots of conflicting info I've read online. Trial and error for us mere mortals.
 

seeded

Vegetating
User ID
1404
Anyone got anything factual info about using reg over fem seed for breeding ?

I’ve heard opposing opinions but nothing that stands solid ,,seems to be folklore only as far as I found.
Every cannabis plant contains the DNA blueprint for both genders. It's natural state of existence is being hermaphroditic and just like any other trait the separation of genders has been bred to the extreme by humans but that said no matter how determined you are you'll never eliminate it's most fundamental of survival strategies, reversing gender to produce seed. All humans have really done is choose to use plants that naturally show a greater separation of genders and work on building tolerance to environmental triggers. Farmers of all crops do this by selecting for the largest fruits, planting a field and refusing to water it so they can use survivors to build more drought tolerance in following generations, etc. We just haven't had the chance to go at things at the same scale for obvious reasons and there's been issues in the past with our limitations like I believe it was Greenhouse Seeds using a tomato farm to pheno hunt females donkey's years ago as the tomatoes off gassed ethylene or some shit which holds male traits at bay which gave the false impression that they were rock solid performers.

Breeding feminised seed doesn't remove the male blueprint from the DNA, nor does it make the plants super females able to hold off throwing bananas. Like the previous example of greenhouse seeds all that's happening is the reverse where the male side is being forced to express. From a technical point of view it's no different than regular breeding except that you're passing on majority XX chromosomes. I've only heard of a handful of cases where a male pops up, last one I believe was a '91 chemdawg, and while there's been claims of these being super males this is only really true in the sense that some seem to give about a 25/75 split of males to females in their offspring. Why this happens I have no clue, they are for all intents and purposes though a regular male plant.

So why hate on feminised seed? In short it's lazy breeding. People aren't stress testing their plants like a farmer would for drought resistance, they're just fuck yeah x and y are good smokes and crossing them together inevitably produces a good z smoke. Admittedly they could indeed pheno based on stress trigger responses to get the most tolerant plants, make back crosses and F2+ generations to see how all the different phenos play out so they can further reduce variability in later generations, etc. but when was the last time you saw a breeder of only feminised seed do that? There's also that little problem of humans thinking we're smarter than nature and the natural state of cannabis being hermaphroditic. At some point the genetics are going to chimp out and rebel against this forced experiment in eugenics and throw bananas. It might take 1000 generations, fucked if I know, but just like the greenhouse seeds problem at some point the chimp out will happen as nature inevitably tries to reclaim itself and instead of co2 growers are going to be gassing their plants to keep them female. In all fairness this is also likely to happen with regular female plants that are kept as mothers because they won't live forever and when they sense death approaching they too will chuck ever increasing amounts of bananas in a final attempt to make seed.

Regular seed breeders on the other hand have to work with what nature naturally supplies. We'll never escape the hermaphroditic nature of the plant but as we work with both male and female dominant plants the DNA will believe there is always a chance to easily make a new generation as it is natural for it to do so and no matter how much we focus on breeding tolerance to adverse conditions into our plants to widen the divide this will always remain true. Our only real issue is the long term keeping of mothers that will chimp out at some point but in all fairness nature never intended for cannabis to be kept alive like that did it? It was always meant to be a yearly crop started with fresh seed and it's our arrogance as humans thinking we're above nature coming into play again and while we will eventually lose all our parental plants it's not like we'll lose the strains themselves as regular seed breeders are constantly storing seeds for preservation unlike female seed breeders that are growing for sale or new smoko. We'll always be able to start from scratch pheno hunting new parents to play with and just think about what humans have done with wild cabbage turning it into broccoli, cauliflower, brussells sprouts, etc. over a few thousand years. Regular seed breeders alone stand to have that kind of future with cannabis as well as having all the heirloom varieties as well.

Personally I believe all of what I said will be thrown out the window when the cannabis genome project completes and a company like monsanto is able to offer GMO seed. Don't get me wrong the species will always survive as some obsessed people will breed no matter what but how are they meant to compete against a giant that can produce whatever you want? Pineapple terps, 30% thc, 7 week flowering times, ultra tolerance to all adverse conditions etc. that grow genetically identical plants no matter how many seeds you order will be irresistible to most people and that's just one example. All it will take is for them to poison the genetics with sterility and a cell replication limit so you can't keep mothers and people will have no choice but to go to them every year and as despicable as this will be and I will shit all over the company that does it I will no doubt end up buying some of their seed too because how could you not want the instant gratification of having a strain personally tailored to your needs or desires? I just hope that our children carry on the legacy of breeding our own regular seeds in the face of such a beast but I fear like all humans that left farming for the cities they'll never grow anything again or will go for the instant gratification route at best.

Sorry for the blog post and not being scientific about things.
 

frankreynolds

Curing
User ID
40
Think you need to distinguish between true hermaphrodites' that show both Male and Female flowers, (common in thai landrace varieties) and plants throwing 'bananas' or female anthers which produce pollen without the male chromosones. Why when selfing plants and making fem seeds you are very quickly bottlenecking the genetics by removing the male part of the DNA. Which in of itself isn't that bad if you are trying to lockdown certain traits etc. but what i seem to see is the overuse of this technique and bottlenecking genetics which leads to incredibally in bred varieties that lose some genetic vigour.
 

Sedge

Baked
Staff member
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Think you need to distinguish between true hermaphrodites' that show both Male and Female flowers, (common in thai landrace varieties) and plants throwing 'bananas' or female anthers which produce pollen without the male chromosones. Why when selfing plants and making fem seeds you are very quickly bottlenecking the genetics by removing the male part of the DNA. Which in of itself isn't that bad if you are trying to lockdown certain traits etc. but what i seem to see is the overuse of this technique and bottlenecking genetics which leads to incredibally in bred varieties that lose some genetic vigour.
yes selfing is sort of bottlenecking ,,
but to me that is the same as constantly running up the
F numbers..to obtain some uniformity and stability in a strain ,,
the less it’s done the more phenos,,,and that’s either good or bad depending on what you want.

As for inbred lines ,,fuck I wish I had more.
they are what I want for making F1 seeds from ..no lack of vigour
from the offspring..and hopefully uniformity.

plenty of strains grow slow and don’t yield so good but that doesn’t mean they got over feminised ,,could just be the genetics
but I presume only the breeder would know.
 

frankreynolds

Curing
User ID
40
yes selfing is sort of bottlenecking ,,
but to me that is the same as constantly running up the
F numbers..to obtain some uniformity and stability in a strain ,,
the less it’s done the more phenos,,,and that’s either good or bad depending on what you want.

As for inbred lines ,,fuck I wish I had more.
they are what I want for making F1 seeds from ..no lack of vigour
from the offspring..and hopefully uniformity.

plenty of strains grow slow and don’t yield so good but that doesn’t mean they got over feminised ,,could just be the genetics
but I presume only the breeder would know.
Yeh the more I read the more I agree, just seems feminising is a much quicker route to bottlenecking genetics. By no means is a bad thing when managed properly.
 

Old fox

Customs Avoidance
Community Member
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28
Most bags I bought in the 80s were full of seed, and leaf covered bud. I actually prefer many of the modern bottlenecked varieties. 🤫 I voted against same sex marriage, but I'm forced to live in a world that accepts gender fluidity as the norm. Hope some of you purists can one day come to terms with FEM varieties as mainstream, just like I have to reluctantly accept that poofters are somehow now normal. Evolution 😜
 

afghan bob

Baked
Community Member
User ID
75
U heard it here first folks, C.G seedbank back up and posting out beans 2 aussies once again
No customs, no overseas, no worries. Flat $6 postage
But best of all everyone i know who used them have all had good results
Not a shit ton of choice and around $15 per seed, autos and fems, they are exxy
But 4 u die hard beaners that cant seem 2 get on, its a reasonable choice
 

Indy

Misfit
User ID
57
Long shot but anyone got any old Celtic Stone stock lying around?

Yeah, from 2006. Dunno how viable they'd be though.

EDIT: From memory, its something like this..

Stoned Rhino
Celtic Cross
Celtic Berry
Venomberry
Celtic Stone

... and fucked if i know what BS is.

celtic.jpg

Celtic Stone wasn't a bad all rounder, but Venomberry fell way short, a real woody purple strain.
 
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