Base soil

[itchybro]

No problem from " my point of view " in asking questions , i can't always answer them but don't mind reading them

first off might not necessarily be a fungus could be a bacteria , see one kind below
indigenous organisms aka organisms from your yard are definitely the go , they are acclimated to your environment & they already speak each others language , better than what is produced in a lab , packaged & sold over the counter
of cause it helps if you take care of the yard / soil your collecting from

no probs adding some but like anything no need to over do it , more of a good thing is not always a good thing

is streptomyces a bacteria or fungi?
Streptomycetes are the most important source of antibiotics for medical, veterinary and agricultural use. They belong to a class of bacteria of considerable interest to human welfare that are known as actinomycetes.

Can bacteria form mycelium?
The type species of the genus is Streptomyces albus. Streptomyces thus show differentiation, which is less well known in bacteria. It produces two types of mycelia: spore-bearing structure and spores.

 

[VinDeezle]

This is the current haze from HGO at around 6.5 weeks since birth and roughly 3 weeks 12/12. In an 80x80 and a 30l pot.

Mix was 20Lish yard soil, 10L peat moss, 10L compost, 10L perlite, 1/3 cup gypsum, 1/2 cup palagonite, 1/2 cup Neem meal for pest management (it's a rounded 6-1-2 feed as well which is why I like Neem meal)

I'd usually add some kelp, alfalfa, soybean and barley to the mix but I've heard sativas don't like a heavy mix so I'd rather leave it pretty basic and feed once it shows some hard times.

I didn't get much time to cook so I gave it a watering in with seasol and ecoboost liquid organic compost at transplant but I assume I won't need to feed for a while.

I figure a basic yard soil/organic compost mix was a good fit for an absolutely stellar sativa from HGO.

 

[Beil]

No problem from " my point of view " in asking questions , i can't always answer them but don't mind reading them

first off might not necessarily be a fungus could be a bacteria , see one kind below
indigenous organisms aka organisms from your yard are definitely the go , they are acclimated to your environment & they already speak each others language , better than what is produced in a lab , packaged & sold over the counter
of cause it helps if you take care of the yard / soil your collecting from

no probs adding some but like anything no need to over do it , more of a good thing is not always a good thing

is streptomyces a bacteria or fungi?
Streptomycetes are the most important source of antibiotics for medical, veterinary and agricultural use. They belong to a class of bacteria of considerable interest to human welfare that are known as actinomycetes.

Can bacteria form mycelium?
The type species of the genus is Streptomyces albus. Streptomyces thus show differentiation, which is less well known in bacteria. It produces two types of mycelia: spore-bearing structure and spores.

I guess the next question is how much do we need to worry about bacteria being an issue? There's bacteria everywhere, and if it's in my grass clippings which will be 5-10m from my pot, they'll end up in the pot anyways (maybe?).

No you've got me going to google bacterial mycelium Tonight and the I'll effects of innoculayed plant media.
Thankyou... Actual thanks as that's just more reading

 

[VinDeezle]

No problem from " my point of view " in asking questions , i can't always answer them but don't mind reading them

first off might not necessarily be a fungus could be a bacteria , see one kind below
indigenous organisms aka organisms from your yard are definitely the go , they are acclimated to your environment & they already speak each others language , better than what is produced in a lab , packaged & sold over the counter
of cause it helps if you take care of the yard / soil your collecting from

no probs adding some but like anything no need to over do it , more of a good thing is not always a good thing

is streptomyces a bacteria or fungi?
Streptomycetes are the most important source of antibiotics for medical, veterinary and agricultural use. They belong to a class of bacteria of considerable interest to human welfare that are known as actinomycetes.

Can bacteria form mycelium?
The type species of the genus is Streptomyces albus. Streptomyces thus show differentiation, which is less well known in bacteria. It produces two types of mycelia: spore-bearing structure and spores.

Well said...I'm just going off intuition but in reality I don't even know if the large colonies that form in my cooks are even beneficial. I just noticed that Ill have a pretty cold mix and I'll add some garden soil and within a day or so it's hot and I have this.

For all I know it might not be beneficial, but I seem to be going alright lol. My smooth brain just goes too "mmmm, heat and life, must be good".

 

[Beil]

This is the current haze from HGO at around 6.5 weeks since birth and roughly 3 weeks 12/12. In an 80x80 and a 30l pot.
View attachment 36067View attachment 36068
Mix was 20Lish yard soil, 10L peat moss, 10L compost, 10L perlite, 1/3 cup gypsum, 1/2 cup palagonite, 1/2 cup Neem meal for pest management (it's a rounded 6-1-2 feed as well which is why I like Neem meal)

I'd usually add some kelp, alfalfa, soybean and barley to the mix but I've heard sativas don't like a heavy mix so I'd rather leave it pretty basic and feed once it shows some hard times.

I didn't get much time to cook so I gave it a watering in with seasol and ecoboost liquid organic compost at transplant but I assume I won't need to feed for a while.

I figure a basic yard soil/organic compost mix was a good fit for an absolutely stellar sativa from HGO.

How's this going vs your other grows where you have added those amendments? Regardless of sativa/Indica prominence I guess.

I think I'm sold on my mix, which has a helluva lot more that that (not Inna good or bad way, just I was going for including everything lol). The only thing I can't find locally is Neem.
Got the alfalfa (Lucerne), kelp and barley (SST solids) in the mix .

Also, what's HGO, I can't search for it on the site?

 

[VinDeezle]

How's this going vs your other grows where you have added those amendments? Regardless of sativa/Indica prominence I guess.

I think I'm sold on my mix, which has a helluva lot more that that (not Inna good or bad way, just I was going for including everything lol). The only thing I can't find locally is Neem.
Got the alfalfa (Lucerne), kelp and barley (SST solids) in the mix .

Also, what's HGO, I can't search for it on the site?

I haven't added this much yard soil before, and this little peat, Coco or amendments so it's a new one for me. It gets hydrophobic easier, and it holds water almost too well, but after only 6 weeks I can't really comment on how it's gone.

Usually ill have more peat or Coco, less yard soil and add some organic slow release as a base (3:1:3 NPK with 9% Ca, 8% S and 8% humic acid) and use dr greenthumbs go/grow and bud/bloom alongside ogs combo rock dust at cook and as top dress every few weeks if I'm running a basic organic medium but this is simplified.

I have included less amendments in the mix this time around as I have some canna bio here I'm interested in running so ill be waiting to see how, when and what issues it shows first. That and sativa are notorious for liking relatively benign medium in comparison to more modern strains.

HGO is a very generous member here that has some spicy sativa genetics at his disposal.

 

[itchybro]

I guess the next question is how much do we need to worry about bacteria being an issue? There's bacteria everywhere, and if it's in my grass clippings which will be 5-10m from my pot, they'll end up in the pot anyways (maybe?).

No you've got me going to google bacterial mycelium Tonight and the I'll effects of innoculayed plant media.
Thankyou... Actual thanks as that's just more reading

in my way of thinking it's not the bacterial organisms that could be a problem , it's the grass clippings that could over do the nitrogen in the mix , too much nitrogen can cause all sorts of problems , from toxicity to making a otherwise healthy looking deep green colored plant more susceptible to pests like aphid

it's a guess to how much but i'd be looking at 1/2 cup per square foot of soil , which is probably on the lighter side but keeping in mind other amendments will add N as well , even if your not adding a amendment for it's nitrogen content , like kelp meal , you don't generally add it for it's N content but you do get some when you add it

Well said...I'm just going off intuition but in reality I don't even know if the large colonies that form in my cooks are even beneficial. I just noticed that Ill have a pretty cold mix and I'll add some garden soil and within a day or so it's hot and I have this.
View attachment 36069
For all I know it might not be beneficial, but I seem to be going alright lol. My smooth brain just goes too "mmmm, heat and life, must be good".

the reason i said to beil it might not be fungal is because it's on a grass pile , in general the cut grass would mostly feed bacteria anything high in lignin would feed fungi , you'd expect to find lignin in straw , like barley straw

just need to say this when talking about straw because some things are called straw when they should be called Hay imo
as a rule of thumb straw has no nutrients in it & is used as bedding for animals where as hay is used as food for animals , the difference is hay is cut before the plant has produced it's seed , straw on the other hand is what's left over after the plant has produced it's seed & has been harvested , barley for instance will grow , suck up all the nutrients it needs then the plant uses those stored nutrients to produce it's fruit , in this case seed , once this is done there is pretty much no nutrients left in the plant , it's why it's used as bedding & not food for animals , when making compost it's your carbon source

 

[Beil]

K

in my way of thinking it's not the bacterial organisms that could be a problem , it's the grass clippings that could over do the nitrogen in the mix , too much nitrogen can cause all sorts of problems , from toxicity to making a otherwise healthy looking deep green colored plant more susceptible to pests like aphid

it's a guess to how much but i'd be looking at 1/2 cup per square foot of soil , which is probably on the lighter side but keeping in mind other amendments will add N as well , even if your not adding a amendment for it's nitrogen content , like kelp meal , you don't generally add it for it's N content but you do get some when you add it


the reason i said to beil it might not be fungal is because it's on a grass pile , in general the cut grass would mostly feed bacteria anything high in lignin would feed fungi , you'd expect to find lignin in straw , like barley straw

just need to say this when talking about straw because some things are called straw when they should be called Hay imo
as a rule of thumb straw has no nutrients in it & is used as bedding for animals where as hay is used as food for animals , the difference is hay is cut before the plant has produced it's seed , straw on the other hand is what's left over after the plant has produced it's seed & has been harvested , barley for instance will grow , suck up all the nutrients it needs then the plant uses those stored nutrients to produce it's fruit , in this case seed , once this is done there is pretty much no nutrients left in the plant , it's why it's used as bedding & not food for animals , when making compost it's your carbon source

Oh, I was literally thinking of scooping/picking out the mycelium and using just that, so wouldn't be more than a cup with the clippings attached . Considering most recipes only call for like a half or full cup of alfalfa (Lucerne) chaff, adding a shit load of grass clippings would be over kill...
I'm still not 100% on what the alfalfa/Lucerne chaff adds, other than a bit of N, Unless that is all it is for??

 

[Beil]

For those playing along at home.
I 'think' this is what I've set upon, I reckon I've taken notes from the input from this thread... But possibly can't see the wood for the trees.
As usual, any input welcome... I'm starting to get everything together now to cook before spring..

So as for my plan... Start seedlings (inside on windowsill, I won't be getting lights for germination) in cups with minimal nutrient medium (with 1" slots so the roots just grow out of them), these will be placed into the mix....... Now these roots will already be like 4" deep coming out the cups... So they probably shouldn't go straight into the 'super' soil? Seems like a lot of wasted space if it needs packing with 'not as rich medium' before they hit the good soil? (Input needed).

Hoping that the medium lasts for the veg stage (out door grow) and will add additional PK come flowering....
No idea if the mix will last through flowing and won't need supplementary PK, but thinking of adding it anyways... I guess I'll figure that out in February (?)

Like most first growers... Just going to wing it, see what happens and probably annoy the fuck out of you guys... But I'm hoping that my initial planning means I won't shit a brick until flowering at least.

Plan to top and LST at 6 nodes, and LST the shit out of everything until she can't go no more.

Much of this may change as I learn more... And happy to adjust.. got a few months lol.
This was before my local soil thoughts, so may amend that.

 

[itchybro]

K

Oh, I was literally thinking of scooping/picking out the mycelium and using just that, so wouldn't be more than a cup with the clippings attached . Considering most recipes only call for like a half or full cup of alfalfa (Lucerne) chaff, adding a shit load of grass clippings would be over kill...
I'm still not 100% on what the alfalfa/Lucerne chaff adds, other than a bit of N, Unless that is all it is for??

alfalfa/Lucerne = naturally occurring plant growth regulator ( PGR ) Triacontanol
in it's highest concentrations at seed germination
making a seed sprout tea from alfalfa/Lucerne seed is a very strong PGR tea = be very careful feeding this to your plants because you can easily over do it , from memory you use about 1/4 oz of seed , sprouted , blended & added to 20 liters of water

very easy to over do soil mixing , this is the mix i use
Ps no animal manures added

Mix Equal parts:
CSPM (Canadian Sphagnum Peat Moss)
Aeration (Pumice/Lava rock)
Compost - Quality is key here.

Amend per CFt with:
1/2 - 1 cup Neem or Karanja meal
1/2 - 1 cup Kelp meal
1/2 - 1 cup Crab/Crustacean meal
1 cup MBP (Malted Barley Powder)

1/2 cup Gypsum (nice sulphur source)
4-6 cups Rock Dust (Basalt is best)
6-8 cups Biochar (Activated)
1 cup lime (oyster shell flower, dolomite...)

 

[Old fox]

In a yard that size, you could build a decent size compost pile. Mine uses all my suitable food waste, garden waste including mowed grass, free horse manure from the local racetrack, and cardboard boxes( brown only)from local Coles skip bin. Use it for topping up your garden beds annually.

 

[Beil]

Oh I forgot to include this aswell as the powdered kelp portion in the mix .
Although if I'm supplementing with seasol (or more likely mixing this with water) - is there any point?

There's a lot more biochar and rock dust in that mix I noticed.

Hmm, kind of similar sans the base ratios and I have loam in there., Plus the animal component.

Up the biochar and rock dust apparently !

 

[Beil]

In a yard that size, you could build a decent size compost pile. Mine uses all my suitable food waste, garden waste including mowed grass, free horse manure from the local racetrack, and cardboard boxes( brown only)from local Coles skip bin. Use it for topping up your garden beds annually.

Yeah that's the plan behind the shed. Utilising this old raised garden bed, nice and hidden.

 

[itchybro]

Oh I forgot to include this aswell as the powdered kelp portion in the mix View attachment 36073.
Although if I'm supplementing with seasol (or more likely mixing this with water) - is there any point?

There's a lot more biochar and rock dust in that mix I noticed.

Hmm, kind of similar sans the base ratios and I have loam in there., Plus the animal component.

Up the biochar and rock dust apparently !

personally i'd leave that eco seaweed on the shelf at bunnings & buy a bag of kelp meal , be a better choice added as a soil amendment in your mix , even added to your compost pile or worm farm , you can also easily make your own liquid seasol with kelp meal & water

rock dusts = minerals , definitely good to have plenty of minerals , in general lots of minerals relates to the nutrient density of production

as far as compost piles go's all items mentioned will work fine but like anything the higher quality inputs the higher quality the compost / castings or output imo
also i reckon castings are a better choice than compost ( both are pretty good though ) & the best castings are made with not quite finished compost fed to the worm farm , side note , worms aren't the kitchen scrapes you put in the bin they are eating the organisms on the kitchen scrapes , the kitchen scrapes are just the delivery system , cardboard has about 15% lignin which will feed fungi , worms eat the cardboard to get the fungi

Earthworms are decomposers, chewing through soil and organic matter to gain nutrients from bacteria, fungi, and protozoa

 

[Beil]

personally i'd leave that eco seaweed on the shelf at bunnings & buy a bag of kelp meal , be a better choice added as a soil amendment in your mix , even added to your compost pile or worm farm , you can also easily make your own liquid seasol with kelp meal & water

rock dusts = minerals , definitely good to have plenty of minerals , in general lots of minerals relates to the nutrient density of production

as far as compost piles go's all items mentioned will work fine but like anything the higher quality inputs the higher quality the compost / castings or output imo
also i reckon castings are a better choice than compost ( both are pretty good though ) & the best castings are made with not quite finished compost fed to the worm farm , side note , worms aren't the kitchen scrapes you put in the bin they are eating the organisms on the kitchen scrapes , the kitchen scrapes are just the delivery system , cardboard has about 15% lignin which will feed fungi , worms eat the cardboard to get the fungi

Earthworms are decomposers, chewing through soil and organic matter to gain nutrients from bacteria, fungi, and protozoa

I wish there were more places near me that had stuff like rock dust, kelp meal etc, they're all on the other side of the city so is a PITA to get there.. but will probably do it.
Ive been keeping a look out with googling places near me, but no luck.

Yeah I was surprised to find out that they don't eat the worms, just the stuff growing on the scraps.
The work farm is 3 60L tubs, one liquid cater for the run off (can't remember the name of it) and 2 that will get swapped around as they fill, so when it gets going, I should have a good amount of castings to use in the garden . And make worm tea for everything.

 

[itchybro]

it was you that didn't like getting stuff delivered i think ? ? ?
because there are lots of places that you can order from
like Vitec , i brought a 20kg bag from them years ago , lasted forever & i used it for everything , from soil mixing , compost & castings making , top dressing , liquid kelp spray , although i never did it but you could add it to your animals food as well
https://www.vitec.com.au/product/king-island-seaweed-meal/

dr greenthumbs , OGS & our own Do Nothing Gardening (Easy As Organics) all have kelp meal & other amendments
but i do understand not wanting to pay for shipping , i've paid heaps over the years because when i first started making my own coot's type soil mix you couldn't buy most if not all of the stuff here in oz now , if you wanted it you had to look in odd places to find items , mostly animal feed stores were often where i found stuff like kelp meal which is often fed to horses & oyster shell fed to chickens & brew stores for malted barley & rice hulls , i even ordered from the US , i found a garden supply store closing down that had put a bunch of stuff cheap on ebay like Down to Earth crab shell meal , shrimp meal , crustacean meal so i ordered a few of them & pretty much got them for not much more than the shipping cost , it's nice to be a little wiser now & if i really think something is worth having i can most likely find it here in oz rather than OS
i haven't been trying to hard but i've been looking round for mustard seed meal , i know we make mustard seed oil here in oz , one day i'll contact the manufacture & find out what they do with the left over seed meal

 

[junglelover]

I wish there were more places near me that had stuff like rock dust, kelp meal etc, they're all on the other side of the city so is a PITA to get there.. but will probably do it.
Ive been keeping a look out with googling places near me, but no luck.

Seaweed meal is something given to livestock, I buy mine at the rural supply store in the horsie section. I give it to our dogs and occasionally chow down myself as it's heaps cheaper than human grade kelp meal and hasn't killed me yet

These are other guys I've had deliveries from:

Seaweed Enterprises Australia | Your Seaweed specialists

The World's best seaweeds for plant, animal and human health. From domestic to bulk sizes. Shop The Seaweed Superstore or contact us today.

www.seaperia.com

Tri-Kelp™

Soluble Organic Seaweed Powder: A Blend of Laminaria, Sargassum, and Ascophyllum nodosum. Tri-Kelp™ Redefines Cost-Effective Kelp for Growth, Stress Relief, and Soil Enhancement across Various Crop Stages. Promote Growth and Flowering, Relieve Plant Stress, Improve Soil Conditions and Enhance...

nutri-tech.com.au

 

[Beil]

Seaweed meal is something given to livestock, I buy mine at the rural supply store in the horsie section. I give it to our dogs and occasionally chow down myself as it's heaps cheaper than human grade kelp meal and hasn't killed me yet

These are other guys I've had deliveries from:

Seaweed Enterprises Australia | Your Seaweed specialists

The World's best seaweeds for plant, animal and human health. From domestic to bulk sizes. Shop The Seaweed Superstore or contact us today.

www.seaperia.com

Tri-Kelp™

Soluble Organic Seaweed Powder: A Blend of Laminaria, Sargassum, and Ascophyllum nodosum. Tri-Kelp™ Redefines Cost-Effective Kelp for Growth, Stress Relief, and Soil Enhancement across Various Crop Stages. Promote Growth and Flowering, Relieve Plant Stress, Improve Soil Conditions and Enhance...

nutri-tech.com.au

Hmmmm, there's a fodder place round the corner from me.
I'll suss it out. They have shell grit I used to get my chickens aswell like itchy said!

Anything else they might have that will be useful? I know they have DE there aswell to be honest!

 

[Beil]

it was you that didn't like getting stuff delivered i think ? ? ?
because there are lots of places that you can order from
like Vitec , i brought a 20kg bag from them years ago , lasted forever & i used it for everything , from soil mixing , compost & castings making , top dressing , liquid kelp spray , although i never did it but you could add it to your animals food as well
https://www.vitec.com.au/product/king-island-seaweed-meal/

dr greenthumbs , OGS & our own Do Nothing Gardening (Easy As Organics) all have kelp meal & other amendments
but i do understand not wanting to pay for shipping , i've paid heaps over the years because when i first started making my own coot's type soil mix you couldn't buy most if not all of the stuff here in oz now , if you wanted it you had to look in odd places to find items , mostly animal feed stores were often where i found stuff like kelp meal which is often fed to horses & oyster shell fed to chickens & brew stores for malted barley & rice hulls , i even ordered from the US , i found a garden supply store closing down that had put a bunch of stuff cheap on ebay like Down to Earth crab shell meal , shrimp meal , crustacean meal so i ordered a few of them & pretty much got them for not much more than the shipping cost , it's nice to be a little wiser now & if i really think something is worth having i can most likely find it here in oz rather than OS
i haven't been trying to hard but i've been looking round for mustard seed meal , i know we make mustard seed oil here in oz , one day i'll contact the manufacture & find out what they do with the left over seed meal

Yeah, I hate paying like $10 delivery for the $20 item I require lol.
Rice hulls are just for aeration aren't they? About $2.50/kg from my local brew shop

 

[itchybro]

Yeah, I hate paying like $10 delivery for the $20 item I require lol.
Rice hulls are just for aeration aren't they? About $2.50/kg from my local brew shop

yep they are for aeration , if you use the 3 part method for making a base soil , one of those parts will be aeration , i use scoria & have substituted around 5 to 15% of the scoria with rice hulls , you don't want to use to much because even though they will take time to break down they will break down removing any aeration you gained by using them

the more important thing about the use of rice hulls though is what a rice plant accumulates while it's growing , rice plants are known to accumulate arsenic , it's important not to over use them , some would prefer to keep away from them altogether