Cover crops and regenarative containers

[Bear777]

What do you like to use for cover crops between replanting. What about during the grow, do you like a mulch or a cover crop or both. And why do you prefer one over the other.

Does anyone choose them off soil tests as well, or is anyone using soil reports to help them dial in their soil, and who do you like to use for your soil tests. I haven't a clue if it's pricey to get a lab report, but if it's reasonable enough it would be nice to know beforehand if something is lacking or vice versa.

On the same subject, what size container is going to be best suited for regen indoor, and what sizes do you think would be impractical, as I was thinking 5gallon might be to small and over 20 gallon might be harder to move as required but there could be easy ways to address that that I suppose like wheeled doilys or something.

One more semi related question, top dressings and transplants, well probably two questions,
When adding a top dressing, many suggest to scratch it in, do you think this does more harm to microbial life, especially fungi, than not scratching it in and just letting watering in suffice, and if running a mulch surely you would disturb the mulch lifting it aside while top dressing and have done no harm.
But what about transplanting into the regen soil. How best to not harm the fungi network once it's established, my thoughts that when chopped the roots are left to break down, then maybe offset transplant?? or I did read an interesting technique where a 1gallon fabric pot was placed on top of worm castings and mycos in center of a 20gallon that had already a chopped cover crop (and indentation from a previous 1gallon that been removed last grow) and they added soil until the 1 gallon fabric pot was buried 25mm, and they said the new roots end up spreading out horizontally under the mulch and down. Well that's a different way to keep disturbance down, I thought, but I wondered if it was practical, guess there is always going to be a compromise somewhere, for instance will the roots might not reach the bottom of the pot anymore, but if the fungi was established by then it might not matter, hmmm. For this , I mainly just wanted to know your thoughts on transplanting in regen soil.

Sorry if this was long, maybe I should have used multiple threads.
Even if your not currently doing a regenative soil, please feel free to comment. Correct me if I am wrong, but I imagine the amount of people out there doing a regenative indoor grow is a minority as a whole.

 

[Sun Ra]

Quote - "I was thinking 5gallon might be to small and over 20 gallon might be harder to move"

20 gallon is a pretty big pot I would have thought. Overkill ?

 

[Tugboat]

Lots of good questions there … I’ll answer a couple from my experience … I’m gonna assume when you say regen indoor you mean a sort of living soils setup ???

When adding a top dressing, many suggest to scratch it in, do you think this does more harm to microbial life, especially fungi, than not scratching it in and just letting watering in suffice

No - imo scratching doesn’t harm as long as you aren’t digging down deep and turning the soil over … I mix amendments with worm castings in a tub before applying to the surface of my planter just so it is evenly mixed and just rake my finger across top as I apply it - then water it in

On the same subject, what size container is going to be best suited for regen indoor, and what sizes do you think would be impractical, as I was thinking 5gallon might be to small and over 20 gallon might be harder to move as required but there could be easy ways to address that that I suppose like wheeled doilys or something.

If you are doing a living soil type setup then 5 gallon won’t be large enough I don’t think - only so much nutrient you can hold in a container that size so you’d need to be supplementing them from relatively early on which sorta defeats the purpose. I think the 20gal would be better - a more stable / consistent / longer lasting nutrient base and easier to maintain good/moisture levels … more importantly smaller pots dry out quicker and if you don’t have watering dialed in a 5 gallon you could be chasing your tail with issues from over / under-watering.

Yeah dolly’s for bigger pots would address moving them around as required.

 

[Bear777]

Quote - "I was thinking 5gallon might be to small and over 20 gallon might be harder to move"

20 gallon is a pretty big pot I would have thought. Overkill ?

maybe it is overkill, it would surely be enough though

 

[Bear777]

Lots of good questions there … I’ll answer a couple from my experience … I’m gonna assume when you say regen indoor you mean a sort of living soils setup ???



No - imo scratching doesn’t harm as long as you aren’t digging down deep and turning the soil over … I mix amendments with worm castings in a tub before applying to the surface of my planter just so it is evenly mixed and just rake my finger across top as I apply it - then water it in




If you are doing a living soil type setup then 5 gallon won’t be large enough I don’t think - only so much nutrient you can hold in a container that size so you’d need to be supplementing them from relatively early on which sorta defeats the purpose. I think the 20gal would be better - a more stable / consistent / longer lasting nutrient base and easier to maintain good/moisture levels … more importantly smaller pots dry out quicker and if you don’t have watering dialed in a 5 gallon you could be chasing your tail with issues from over / under-watering.

Yeah dolly’s for bigger pots would address moving them around as required.

Yes a living indoor soil.

That's what I was thinking a larger amount of soil should be more stable.

 

[itchybro]

What do you like to use for cover crops between replanting. What about during the grow, do you like a mulch or a cover crop or both. And why do you prefer one over the other.

both , you grow a cover crop & as it gets bigger you chop & drop so the cover crop becomes the mulch , the nutrients the cover crop takes from the system is returned once it's turned into mulch & consumed by soil life
the cover crop will also struggle to grow once the cash crop over grows it & shades it out
you might also start with a mulch like barley straw & sprinkle the green manure or cover crop seed over the top , then use your fingers to lightly mover the mulch around so the seed gets in contact with the soil surface , the seed doesn't need to be covered by soil to sprout but it does need to be in contact with the moist top soil & it helps if it covered by a mulch , although bigger seed like a broad been might need to be pushed into the soil a little if they happen to be part of your cover crop mix

Does anyone choose them off soil tests as well, or is anyone using soil reports to help them dial in their soil, and who do you like to use for your soil tests. I haven't a clue if it's pricey to get a lab report, but if it's reasonable enough it would be nice to know beforehand if something is lacking or vice versa.

yes the knowledge would be lovely but no i don't because it's generally expensive , you also need to be educated on how to understand or read a soil test & the type of test you've had done , it is also handy but not a must , to be able to discuss the cash crop your growing with the lab to decide the best course of action , talk to @Donothing-garden he tests his Easy As Organics soil he sells for more insight

On the same subject, what size container is going to be best suited for regen indoor, and what sizes do you think would be impractical, as I was thinking 5gallon might be to small and over 20 gallon might be harder to move as required but there could be easy ways to address that that I suppose like wheeled doilys or something.

bigger the better , multiple plant in a small bed is much better than multiple plants in small individual posts , bigger containers are really about consistency of moisture , nutrients are important too but it's the soil life that will create those nutrients for the plant to feed on that rely heavily on consistent moisture
why do you need to move the container ?

One more semi related question, top dressings and transplants, well probably two questions,
When adding a top dressing, many suggest to scratch it in, do you think this does more harm to microbial life, especially fungi, than not scratching it in and just letting watering in suffice, and if running a mulch surely you would disturb the mulch lifting it aside while top dressing and have done no harm.

generally your not going to do that much harm by scratching it in to the soil surface but as you point out if you are using a mulch layer just scratching amendments through the mulch so it's in contact with the moist soil surface like i mentioned above with your cover crop seed is good enough for worms & other soil dwellers to consume

But what about transplanting into the regen soil. How best to not harm the fungi network once it's established, my thoughts that when chopped the roots are left to break down, then maybe offset transplant?? or I did read an interesting technique where a 1gallon fabric pot was placed on top of worm castings and mycos in center of a 20gallon that had already a chopped cover crop (and indentation from a previous 1gallon that been removed last grow) and they added soil until the 1 gallon fabric pot was buried 25mm, and they said the new roots end up spreading out horizontally under the mulch and down. Well that's a different way to keep disturbance down, I thought, but I wondered if it was practical, guess there is always going to be a compromise somewhere, for instance will the roots might not reach the bottom of the pot anymore, but if the fungi was established by then it might not matter, hmmm. For this , I mainly just wanted to know your thoughts on transplanting in regen soil.

if your using a small bed for instance think of digging in a transplant the same as topping a plant , when you top above 2 parallel nodes you get 2 growing tops , the fungi will do the same in the soil when you dig in transplants , fungi is important & it's the organism that takes the longest to establish so your right at be cautious but digging in a few small transplants is not going to wipe it out , & yes you leave the stump in place after you harvest & just plant the next ones beside , at some point towards the end of the next grow you'll pull those first stumps & they'll easily slide out without any roots attached

Correct me if I am wrong, but I imagine the amount of people out there doing a regenative indoor grow is a minority as a whole.

correct

I would add as well as using larger containers like small beds & putting multiple plants in them , preferably the same cut or clone for ease of management , consider using a watering system like blumat

 

[afghan bob]

Good 'ol Itchy, clear, concise, in words that even i can understand, and 2 the point

A++ for sultan of soil

 

[frankreynolds]

Even if your not currently doing a regenative soil, please feel free to comment. Correct me if I am wrong, but I imagine the amount of people out there doing a regenative indoor grow is a minority as a whole.

Might be mainly because what you guys are doing does not mimick a real soil profile in the slightest. Nor does it even fall under the classification of a soil, you guys are doing soiless mixes that have organic based nutritional inputs.

Which is fine, but may be a reason why you don't see the terms regenerative etc. thrown around unless in marketing certain indoor products.

 

[Bear777]

both , you grow a cover crop & as it gets bigger you chop & drop so the cover crop becomes the mulch , the nutrients the cover crop takes from the system is returned once it's turned into mulch & consumed by soil life
the cover crop will also struggle to grow once the cash crop over grows it & shades it out
you might also start with a mulch like barley straw & sprinkle the green manure or cover crop seed over the top , then use your fingers to lightly mover the mulch around so the seed gets in contact with the soil surface , the seed doesn't need to be covered by soil to sprout but it does need to be in contact with the moist top soil & it helps if it covered by a mulch , although bigger seed like a broad been might need to be pushed into the soil a little if they happen to be part of your cover crop mix


yes the knowledge would be lovely but no i don't because it's generally expensive , you also need to be educated on how to understand or read a soil test & the type of test you've had done , it is also handy but not a must , to be able to discuss the cash crop your growing with the lab to decide the best course of action , talk to @Donothing-garden he tests his Easy As Organics soil he sells for more insight


bigger the better , multiple plant in a small bed is much better than multiple plants in small individual posts , bigger containers are really about consistency of moisture , nutrients are important too but it's the soil life that will create those nutrients for the plant to feed on that rely heavily on consistent moisture
why do you need to move the container ?


generally your not going to do that much harm by scratching it in to the soil surface but as you point out if you are using a mulch layer just scratching amendments through the mulch so it's in contact with the moist soil surface like i mentioned above with your cover crop seed is good enough for worms & other soil dwellers to consume


if your using a small bed for instance think of digging in a transplant the same as topping a plant , when you top above 2 parallel nodes you get 2 growing tops , the fungi will do the same in the soil when you dig in transplants , fungi is important & it's the organism that takes the longest to establish so your right at be cautious but digging in a few small transplants is not going to wipe it out , & yes you leave the stump in place after you harvest & just plant the next ones beside , at some point towards the end of the next grow you'll pull those first stumps & they'll easily slide out without any roots attached


correct

I would add as well as using larger containers like small beds & putting multiple plants in them , preferably the same cut or clone for ease of management , consider using a watering system like blumat

Thank you for all your insight, lots of good information.

What do you like to use for cover crops.

I didn't know it was expensive to do soil tests. I hadn't thought about the interpretation of the data requiring a bit more know how, good point.

Oh you asked why I would need to move the container, I was going to go with 2 tents, a veg and a flower, so I could keep if I found something I really like going. But even the best plans can change

I like your explanation of the transplant disturbing fungi compared to topping, a different way to think about it

It hadn't even occurred to me to think of a small bed with multiple plants, it's sounding more and more like outside raised bed.

 

[itchybro]

i buy seeds from these guys , it's a little cheaper to buy 400g than buying little packs at $3 or $4 , generally you'd only buy summer but if you were outdoor you'd buy a winter mix for the off season , with 400g of seed you could also use the seed to make seed sprout tea's
https://www.edenseeds.com.au/Product-Info-Seeds?product=green-manure-mix-spring-summer
https://www.edenseeds.com.au/Product-Info-Seeds?product=green-manure-mix-autumn-winter
you can also buy a small pack of a green manure mix from bunnings

have a look at buildasoil youtube he has a large tent with everything from small gallon pots , sub irrigated planters & a small bed that is on it's 5th or 6th cycle , same media amended ( top dressed ) each run

up to you how you run your tents , in my way of thinking you have a veg tent for clones / vegging plant & the flower tent , if you were going to do some breeding then you might need to re-think the setup & container moving

whatever you do good luck with it mate

 

[Harry bootlace]

I have alfalfa growing
Planted it years ago and it never disappears
I chop and drop all the time as it can get out of hand.
I’m a lazy gardener
Very.
Compost and water is pretty much all I do, plus the alfalfa ( lucerne), and reasonably good soil to begin with.

 

[GlennT_59]

I have alfalfa growing
Planted it years ago and it never disappears
I chop and drop all the time as it can get out of hand.
I’m a lazy gardener
Very.
Compost and water is pretty much all I do, plus the alfalfa ( lucerne), and reasonably good soil to begin with.

I did not know that alfalfa and lucerne were the same thing ..... learn something new everyday ............oh and it's latin(?) name is Medicago sativa lol.